This is the full uncut conversation with Mariame Kaba from our episode Rooting Out Our Culture of Harm.

In this inspiring Juneteenth conversation, abolitionist Mariame Kaba joins Laura and the Reverend Dr. Jacqui Lewis to discuss how each of us—parents, children, elders—can be part of building a society where harm is addressed, people’s needs are met, and accountability doesn’t require punishment. “Everything worthwhile is done with other people,” writes Kaba. She is the Founder/Director of Project NIA, which seeks to end the incarceration of children and young adults, and the author of the New York Times best selling book We do This ‘Til We Free Us: Abolitionist Organizing and Transforming Justice. Kaba’s vision places the collective—and not the individual self—at the heart of freedom. Abolition of the prison industrial complex is essential, she says, but freedom also takes getting to know your neighbors, thinking about how we can help each other, and building an entire society that roots out our culture of harm.

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